And the threat to you if you remain in possession of the building and the archives? If your finances are tied up in it then I suppose he could theoretically bankrupt you. What other ramifications are there?
[Lyall asks and then realizes that this still may be...too much for Jon's shoulders.]
Have you taken the contract to a lawyer? I could do that for you, if you haven't. I could also speak to him myself. I am good at reasoning with people. Managing them.
[It might go better. Lyall doesn't say it out loud, but he is probably a great deal more effective at it than Jon.]
[So many alarms sound in Jon's head at once that it takes him a moment to quiet them and actually do anything apart from internally panic.]
Don't talk to him. Do not talk to him, please. He can't be managed. He is not a person you can manage, Lyall. I haven't taken it to a lawyer, yet. But I spoke to Matt Murdock about him regarding another matter. I don't want to get any more people involved in this than necessary. I'm telling you because of the financial issues, honestly. I know the house belongs to Alessandro, but I want to make sure you're both still making enough to stay fed and comfortable without me helping with household expenses. You have separate bank accounts we've set up together, so that hopefully shouldn't be something Elias can touch.
I don't know what other threats he could pose if I stay there. He wants us to be closer, to let him in. Losing more of my humanity? I don't know. I'm already in his debt for something else. I just feel trapped. Even if I give him everything, we're still connected. He can still call me to him whenever he wants. He still has a chain on Agnes. On Ginger. We're in another fucking universe and I can't get away from him!
[Lyall can tell he's set Jon off, just from the texts that stream in. He allows them to do so before he responds.]
I won't speak to him, then. I promise. And I appreciate the information, thank you. I believe the shop does enough business that we would be kept comfortably even if you were not able to contribute. We would take care of you.
It is all right to be tired. Understandable.
[There is a small pause between the texts.]
I wish I could help with untangling yourself from him. I want to help. I know what it is to be tethered to someone making your life hell and unable to sever that connection.
[There's something that twists in Jon's gut at that. He'll be taken care of financially. It makes him feel like a child again, back when he'd had to rely on his grandmother for everything. Probably best not to think too hard about it.]
Alessandro's told me how he dies. Why. I'm sorry, Lyall. For everything.
[He has only the barest of bare bones, but he knows without Knowing this one. Maybe that's a little of why he'd reached out to the werewolf, too.]
[This time it is Lyall who does not respond right away. He's tried very hard to keep Alessandro's death secret, to allow him to tell things on his own time. Somehow knowing that Jon has known for...how long?...is arresting though it likely should not be. And the idea that he knows why, to any extent....]
It was all half a century ago, for me. Things are far better now. But thank you.
I suppose I did it by having faith that one day he would be. By my hands or by the work of another.
It doesn't all have to be on your shoulders. You say you don't want more people involved than necessary and that is fine. But perhaps more is necessary than you think.
It is something you can carry for a finite period. I endured for five years before I figured out how to stop him. But Jon, you cannot carry it forever. One way or another, he must be stopped. With or without help.
I don't even know what he's going to do. It's not like he's coming down to the basement and torturing me daily.
[That might be more on the nose than Jon realizes.]
He's just there. Watching me. He hasn't even done anything to hurt me here. Nothing that didn't start with me meddling with him first. Maybe I should just let him be? And he'll leave me alone?
[Maybe it's wishful thinking.]
Edited (probably should have put this earlier) 2020-04-30 02:39 (UTC)
I don't know, Jon. He manipulated you in the past, yes? And he has threatened you here. As punishment, yes, but it is still a threat.
And I think he must know what he is doing to you emotionally. It need not be physical to hurt. Watching you is still action. If he were going to leave you alone would he still be doing that?
['I don't know' is a frustratingly common answer for anything to do with Elias Bouchard. Virtually the default.]
He manipulated me in the past to prepare me for his ritual. If he's not doing one here, I don't even understand why he wants to engage with me. Beyond... vanity? A sense of ownership?
What would you do? If you had someone like him here?
I would collect information on that person, to better understand how they might be stopped. And I would assess whether or not I was capable of carrying out the necessary action to do that or if I would need to enlist aid.
[Lyall thinks Jon might just assume he's saying this in the service of his previous assertion that this doesn't all have to be on his shoulders, so he adds a bit more after a moment.]
I was not capable, in my own situation. Of carrying out the necessary task. Of course, it was simpler, I think.
He just needed to die. But there was no one strong enough within our pack. No loners strong enough either. The solution was to find an Alpha who was. Who was in a position to challenge him.
You said he's done nothing to harm you that hasn't begun with you meddling. What has he done?
And your solution involved destroying that Alpha's other pack? I don't think I could do something like that, Lyall.
[He types it without thinking, without recalling that he's never spoken to Lyall about this at all.]
He had me put in Realignment twice. The first time when he'd only just arrived. I saw him in a cafe and knew he must have called me to him. I panicked, started yelling at him. There was a woman. I... terrified her. I didn't mean to, but she just kept looking at us. I don't know. He came to 'punish' me for that, but he just... sat there in the room and talked.
[Jon's insides curl with shame, knowing how this looks. How it reads.]
The second was after I convinced Agnes there was a way to take off her collar without him finding out. I had to work at the Naughty Persian for a week as one of the cats.
[Not that he'd... ever mentioned that to Alessandro or Lyall.]
That's... technically it, I suppose. But I know he's watching me. And he has to be planning something. What if I'm doing what he wants again? I can't tell if I don't know what he wants me to do in the first place. Or not do?
[The mental strain of having to second guess everything you do is overwhelming... which is probably why Jon does so much without thinking at all. In the vain hope it might be against Elias' plans.]
[It takes him a good ten or fifteen minutes to respond to all of that. Which, one might be able to think, makes some amount of sense given all that Jon has said. Really, at least half of that is spent looking at those first two responses. Of course he wonders how Jon...knows this, but even still he has inklings. The second sentence carries with it a feeling of shame. He'd done what needed to be done and he doesn't regret it.
But shame still plays a factor.
In the end he simply does not respond to those first two lines. They are...irrelevant. Jon's opinion on his choices does not hold relevance to the situation and neither do Lyall's feelings. It's the rest of the message that is important.
He tucks the information about Realignment away as well without comment. For the moment.]
Perhaps you can't know. Perhaps the best you can do for now is to consult with others when you feel unsure about taking a particular course of action. Or if you think action is needed.
[All of this is causing Lyall to very much back out of his promise not to speak to Elias. His ability to give advice on the subject is so hampered if he has no measure of the man.]
I don't know. It's a lot to take in. We're in a contract and this does put you at risk. I've tried to keep you and Alessandro as much out of all of this as possible. And we're... bound? With your pack thing. I don't know if that affects anything to do with you and what might happen to me. I'm worried about you?
Right. Good. In the event that anything happens... it might be good for you and Alessandro to consider a second option for your contracts. I don't think I'm going to die or anything horrible. Just if he starts to reach beyond the Institute. The fewer ties I have, the fewer strings he can pull.
[Inducing isolation is also a very effective manipulation tactic, but that's not specifically on Jon's mind at the moment.]
[Jon's not terribly concerned for his own health, so he just... doesn't respond to that first part.]
It's probably important if I disappear, as well. You might need to drag him kicking and screaming. The thought of you two without any kind of protection... There are good people who are Doms here. One of the receptionists at the Institute. Sally Timms? She could do with a Hunter and a werewolf to protect her.
Shy, uncertain of herself. She's intelligent, but doesn't trust her own instincts. At least not the ones that aren't shouting insecurities into her ears. She's been touched by the supernatural in a terrible way. And could likely do with more friends her own age. Or therapy. A significant amount of therapy.
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craftylikea) wrote2019-09-17 10:48 pm
no subject
[Lyall asks and then realizes that this still may be...too much for Jon's shoulders.]
Have you taken the contract to a lawyer? I could do that for you, if you haven't.
I could also speak to him myself. I am good at reasoning with people. Managing them.
[It might go better. Lyall doesn't say it out loud, but he is probably a great deal more effective at it than Jon.]
no subject
Don't talk to him.
Do not talk to him, please.
He can't be managed.
He is not a person you can manage, Lyall.
I haven't taken it to a lawyer, yet.
But I spoke to Matt Murdock about him regarding another matter.
I don't want to get any more people involved in this than necessary.
I'm telling you because of the financial issues, honestly.
I know the house belongs to Alessandro, but I want to make sure you're both still making enough to stay fed and comfortable without me helping with household expenses.
You have separate bank accounts we've set up together, so that hopefully shouldn't be something Elias can touch.
I don't know what other threats he could pose if I stay there.
He wants us to be closer, to let him in.
Losing more of my humanity?
I don't know.
I'm already in his debt for something else.
I just feel trapped.
Even if I give him everything, we're still connected.
He can still call me to him whenever he wants.
He still has a chain on Agnes.
On Ginger.
We're in another fucking universe and I can't get away from him!
Sorry.
I'm tired.
no subject
I won't speak to him, then. I promise.
And I appreciate the information, thank you. I believe the shop does enough business that we would be kept comfortably even if you were not able to contribute.
We would take care of you.
It is all right to be tired. Understandable.
[There is a small pause between the texts.]
I wish I could help with untangling yourself from him.
I want to help.
I know what it is to be tethered to someone making your life hell and unable to sever that connection.
no subject
Alessandro's told me how he dies.
Why.
I'm sorry, Lyall.
For everything.
[He has only the barest of bare bones, but he knows without Knowing this one. Maybe that's a little of why he'd reached out to the werewolf, too.]
no subject
It was all half a century ago, for me. Things are far better now.
But thank you.
no subject
How do you live with it?
Knowing you can't stop someone?
no subject
It doesn't all have to be on your shoulders.
You say you don't want more people involved than necessary and that is fine. But perhaps more is necessary than you think.
It is something you can carry for a finite period. I endured for five years before I figured out how to stop him. But Jon, you cannot carry it forever. One way or another, he must be stopped. With or without help.
cw: abusive relationship dynamics
It's not like he's coming down to the basement and torturing me daily.
[That might be more on the nose than Jon realizes.]
He's just there.
Watching me.
He hasn't even done anything to hurt me here.
Nothing that didn't start with me meddling with him first.
Maybe I should just let him be?
And he'll leave me alone?
[Maybe it's wishful thinking.]
no subject
I don't know, Jon.
He manipulated you in the past, yes?
And he has threatened you here. As punishment, yes, but it is still a threat.
And I think he must know what he is doing to you emotionally. It need not be physical to hurt.
Watching you is still action. If he were going to leave you alone would he still be doing that?
no subject
He manipulated me in the past to prepare me for his ritual.
If he's not doing one here, I don't even understand why he wants to engage with me.
Beyond... vanity?
A sense of ownership?
What would you do?
If you had someone like him here?
no subject
And I would assess whether or not I was capable of carrying out the necessary action to do that or if I would need to enlist aid.
[Lyall thinks Jon might just assume he's saying this in the service of his previous assertion that this doesn't all have to be on his shoulders, so he adds a bit more after a moment.]
I was not capable, in my own situation. Of carrying out the necessary task.
Of course, it was simpler, I think.
He just needed to die.
But there was no one strong enough within our pack. No loners strong enough either.
The solution was to find an Alpha who was. Who was in a position to challenge him.
You said he's done nothing to harm you that hasn't begun with you meddling.
What has he done?
no subject
I don't think I could do something like that, Lyall.
[He types it without thinking, without recalling that he's never spoken to Lyall about this at all.]
He had me put in Realignment twice.
The first time when he'd only just arrived.
I saw him in a cafe and knew he must have called me to him.
I panicked, started yelling at him.
There was a woman.
I... terrified her.
I didn't mean to, but she just kept looking at us.
I don't know.
He came to 'punish' me for that, but he just... sat there in the room and talked.
[Jon's insides curl with shame, knowing how this looks. How it reads.]
The second was after I convinced Agnes there was a way to take off her collar without him finding out.
I had to work at the Naughty Persian for a week as one of the cats.
[Not that he'd... ever mentioned that to Alessandro or Lyall.]
That's... technically it, I suppose.
But I know he's watching me.
And he has to be planning something.
What if I'm doing what he wants again?
I can't tell if I don't know what he wants me to do in the first place.
Or not do?
[The mental strain of having to second guess everything you do is overwhelming... which is probably why Jon does so much without thinking at all. In the vain hope it might be against Elias' plans.]
no subject
But shame still plays a factor.
In the end he simply does not respond to those first two lines. They are...irrelevant. Jon's opinion on his choices does not hold relevance to the situation and neither do Lyall's feelings. It's the rest of the message that is important.
He tucks the information about Realignment away as well without comment. For the moment.]
Perhaps you can't know.
Perhaps the best you can do for now is to consult with others when you feel unsure about taking a particular course of action. Or if you think action is needed.
[All of this is causing Lyall to very much back out of his promise not to speak to Elias. His ability to give advice on the subject is so hampered if he has no measure of the man.]
no subject
Could I ask you?
I know this is a lot, so you don't need to say yes.
But I trust you Lyall.
Your judgment.
no subject
You can ask me. I would be happy to help.
no subject
I suppose that's all for the moment.
Are you going to be all right?
no subject
Why do you ask?
no subject
It's a lot to take in.
We're in a contract and this does put you at risk.
I've tried to keep you and Alessandro as much out of all of this as possible.
And we're... bound?
With your pack thing.
I don't know if that affects anything to do with you and what might happen to me.
I'm worried about you?
no subject
It is quite a bit to take in but I would rather know than not.
I appreciate that you're worried but we will weather this.
no subject
Good.
In the event that anything happens... it might be good for you and Alessandro to consider a second option for your contracts.
I don't think I'm going to die or anything horrible.
Just if he starts to reach beyond the Institute.
The fewer ties I have, the fewer strings he can pull.
[Inducing isolation is also a very effective manipulation tactic, but that's not specifically on Jon's mind at the moment.]
no subject
[Jon may not be thinking about it, but Lyall is.]
I will consider it. But I think it would be very difficult to persuade Alessandro to do so.
You know how stubborn he can be. You may be stuck with us.
no subject
It's probably important if I disappear, as well.
You might need to drag him kicking and screaming.
The thought of you two without any kind of protection...
There are good people who are Doms here.
One of the receptionists at the Institute.
Sally Timms?
She could do with a Hunter and a werewolf to protect her.
no subject
That is an entirely different circumstance.
But also a valid point.
I will discuss it with him, if only to prepare for that contingency.
What is Ms Timms like?
no subject
She's intelligent, but doesn't trust her own instincts.
At least not the ones that aren't shouting insecurities into her ears.
She's been touched by the supernatural in a terrible way.
And could likely do with more friends her own age.
Or therapy.
A significant amount of therapy.
no subject
I can see why you might have thought of her.
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